YuleLog Ornament Collector's Bulletin Board Forums Discussion Ornament Collecting Discussion Ebay Item make me mad at Hallmark

But, if the Hallmark does the correct thing with the contest, they wouldn't lose it. It seems like a very simple concept: store pays for the set, store puts up signs, store puts out box with slips for people to write down their names/numbers/addresses, store draws names once Premiere is over, store calls winners, store holds ornaments for winners.

It's not super complicated. It's not difficult.

From a legal standpoint, it costs Hallmark a great deal more to have to field phone calls and answer emails over a dishonest store than it does to shut a store down or penalize a store. Phone call centers and people who answer emails do not gain any company any money. It cost money to have them. Anything that can cut down a phone call is a plus for a company. And if a Hallmark Gold Crown store sells their RTW ornaments online but still puts up the signs in their store, they are breaking a law. And if someone at that store found out that the store was doing that, they could take the store and Hallmark to court over it, and no corporation wants to go through that.

Now, if the seller is not putting up the signs, they are not breaking any state law. But, they could be breaching a contract, provided that Hallmark has a contract for their employees, whether that be about this particular RTW drawing or a code of ethics.

You cannot argue against a law. If the store is breaking the state's law, they should be punished. If the store is breaking a contract they agreed to with Hallmark, they should be punished. And, yeah, it's a shame that a store could be closed down because of a little contest, since it would cost jobs and some collectors could lose their store, but like others have said, where do you draw the line? Most replies here seem to view this as bad business practice (or basic ethics, whatever term floats your boat), so I've said my peace. Hopefully Hallmark will figure out a way to prevent this since these people are kind of using their positions in the stores to gain money in a sneaky, dishonest way. Definitely people have a right to be upset by this. I think everyone here can agree on that point.

And who amongst us has not been in a store or restaurant and see someone pitch a fit? Everyone has. Every store/restaurant faces that. People will curse you out in a heartbeat if you don't have what they want when they want it for the price they think it should be. I've seen it at a Hallmark before. I'm sorry about what happened to your parents, but it's sadly the way society is. A lot of selfish people out there. I've seen them and had to deal with them many times.



Oh, I used to think that too. I only enter once per store (3 stores). I'd seen people in the past filling out multiple forms, but it doesn't seem right to me. And I did win one last year, so there's hope, Kimmie.

Well I do fill out 3 forms....one for me one for my hubby and one for my Mom who are all with me at the store..so it is possible that someone filling out forms is doing it for someone who is present....
yeh I know probably not very many of us who do that...most who are filling out the extras are for themselves...

I think I have heard of stores who sort and pull duplicates and then replace them for the drawing....

If this is in fact true, then the ornament/auction in question states that the buyer should have the ornament bu July 12. That is BEFORE Premier, so it is before the release date.

Since the stores buy this RTW package, HMK can't do anything with regard to what the store does with the package. They can sell the ornaments separately and not even have a RTW but if the sell it, apparently it has to be done AFTER the release date.

Posting on HMK Facebook page and a flurry of emails to HMK might make a difference.

BTW That store, or the person, is located in the Pittsburgh area. Once you bid you can get the seller's info, such as phone and address. Hint hint

I went and checked Ebay for 2013 hallmark ornaments and I'm shocked that there are "presales" for 2013 KOC ornaments and the prices are just crazy. I think BOTH Ebay and Hallmark should do something about allowing sellers to sell things that aren't yet available.

Well, store owners that were closing, etc. have told me that Hallmark puts all kinds of restrictions on what they can do and not do, such as how they set up the store and what merchandise they carry, so if they can do that, it would be easy for them to take away Gold Crown status if they don't put out the boxes for the RTW and if they sell them before the event. They just have to put it in the contract.

And so far, there are none in New Jersey! :-)

HMK won't know about any of this unless "we" inform them.

I also notice that KOC ornament Season's Treatings that will be placed in "some" of the grab bags is also listed on Ebay. I wonder how they can know that they will get them. I seller actually had more than 1 listed.

There is 1 seller that has sold 6 of the Season's Treatings repaints already. Not sure how you can be sure to get 6 of them.

HUH??? This is shady...

I don't think it was only one seller who has sold/is pre-selling the Seasons Treatings Repaint 2013 from the KOC event. I counted 4 and one of them was the same person (Pittsburgh) who is selling the RTW ornament from Premiere.

I find this sort of thing (selling an ornament that will be in SOME grab bags at the KOC event in August) VERY interesting. HMK really should be interested in this situation.

Do we add this to the collection?

"Hi! I found this on eBay and thought you might like it! Check it out now! Hallmark 2013 Indigo Bunting KOC Event Exclusive Ornament *PRE-SALE* MIMB http://r.ebay.com/Cz8RDD"

Bill

Look at this scroll down to the bottom.

http://www.hallmark.com/offers/ornament-premiere/?mailID=T_E_M_070813_GC_VA_EventOffers

This is where Hallmark says they will have RTW not just the store may have them.

It was 1 seller that has sold 6 of the Season's Treatings repaints. Do a search you will see the same seller sold 4 on one auction and 2 on another auction...I wasn't just making it up.

And it goes on and on! Sometimes I just watch the comments, and then other times I have to chime in. If you can't pay to play then you should have no say. If someone wants to spend THOUSANDS of dollars as an investment, it really is none of your business. You could do the same if you chose (or were able) to. If people aren't doing something that's blatantly illegal, what do you care?

So it went from "RTW's" to anybody who might be selling anything that you don't think is right. In a childish voice: "Oh, I see one seller who....." or "I think Hallmark should....." or my personal favourite "Check out this auction...." I always notice how comments about one particular aftermarket seller are conspicuously missing from these posts, apparently because of their (gender neutral term) participation and stature on this board. I've never seen one question about where this person gets so many of everything, but anyone else is carrion of the day.

So it's okay for one, but not for others? I love the selective indignation! Why is one person sacrosanct, and everyone else should be tarred and feathered? Just because they're doing something you won't (or can't) do? Do you want to be among the elite? Then put your money on the table, or.....! I LOVE intellectual jousting. Let the games begin!

Please don't misunderstand what this post is about. There are some things that are wrong, and people should be called out for them. But sellers in the marketplace selling products that they have (or will) legally acquire isn't one of them. There should be a separate part of the boards for some of these posts. It should be clear by now that I could possibly be one of the people that some of you people have so viciously maligned, and I have something to say about that.

Also, as far as the ticket bowl, this year I will personally hand out my spare vouchers, and there's at least 3 surnames that won't get a single voucher, as they devoured the ones I put in last time. I knew who they were beforehand, but thought decency would prevail, but I was soooooo wrong! It was most definitely hard to keep from redlining, so I'll do it differently this time.

Hmm, do I say what I think; or, not? Yeah why not.



I would never go so far as to call those who may have a different opinion from me as kindergartners as you inferred with the above statement. This is a subject that some of us may have a strong opinion about and we are entitled to have an opinion if we choose to do so. I guess I didn't realize that on this board we have to have the same opinion as some on here; or, we would be called names and/or lectured to. If the standard on this board has become that if we don't have thousands of dollars to open up our own Hallmark store then we have forfeited our right to an opinion; or, to voice that opinion, then I think maybe a handful of of Yuleloggers would be able to say their opinion. I certainly hope I misunderstood that statement; however, I don't feel I did.

The practice of selling R-T-W ornaments prior to Premiere may not be "blatantly illegal"; however, it is most certainly unethical in my opinion. Your opinion on what's ethical or what's not ethical may be different than mine; however, I wouldn't go so far as to say that my opinion is right and yours is not right. I would also not go so far as to say that you weren't entitled to voice that opinion on here.



The title of this post is "Ebay Item makes me mad at Hallmark". Yes the topic started out as being a particular R-T-W ornament that was being sold on Ebay; however, a couple of the following posts have talked about other Ebay auctions for items that seem suspicious to already be on Ebay. I am not familiar with how the Seasons Treatings ornaments will be distributed that were referred to on here; so, I can't say that I have an opinion since I am not informed enough about it.

I know who you are referring to on here with the comments "I always notice how comments about one particular aftermarket seller are conspicuously missing from these posts, apparently because of their (gender neutral term) participation and stature on this board" and I personally take great offense to that. Furthermore, I feel that this particular seller is neither here nor there and is not relevant to the aforementioned topic at hand. You were critical of this topic for getting slightly off topic; so, why would it be acceptable to branch off the topic into something else that is also slightly off topic? (Remember that this topic was talking about a store owner/manager/employee who is apparently selling a R-T-W ornament that was designed to be given out as a door prize)

I think that if these ornaments were being sold after the event and someone legitimately won this item; nearly everyone would not have a problem with this practice. It seems to be a reoccurring pattern for this particular seller and this particular seller seems to continuously get away with breaking Hallmark's policies. If this person chooses to break one of Hallmark's "trivial" policies; what other policies/actions that they are breaking/committing? It would lead me to believe they may possibly be doing other things that are not in accordance with Hallmark's policies.



so once again just because I don't have the money to be a reseller; I am not entitled to an opinion or to voice that opinion? Once again, if this is the standard; very few would be able to say anything on this board. That seems to be a very dangerous road to travel down here. I believe statements like that to be elitist in my own personal opinion.



Once again, I don't feel there would ever be 100% disagreement as to what's ethical and what's unethical. Just because you might feel that this practice is ethical, doesn't mean that I would say you were wrong and I was right. There is more then 1 way of looking at the world. I am thrilled that my Sociology students learned that lesson this past semester when I taught for the first time and it's a lesson that should be learned by more. Once again, if a store has agreed to follow Hallmark's policies and one of those policies is to not sell ornaments before a particular date and if that store chooses to do so, it most certainly may be illegal but it's definitely bordering on breach of contract.

If the standard to lose one's gold crown status becomes actions that are legal/illegal; then by all means I think Hallmark stores should begin selling their ornaments now. Why not right? Gives them a competitive edge which can lead to a financial advantage over their competitors over the Hallmark stores that have chosen to follow Hallmark's policies.

I remember in the early days of these R-T-W drawings and I called the Hallmark store in Downtown Duluth as to how they were going to handle the R-T-W drawing. I remember the owner's response as "having just gotten back from vacation and was not sure how she was going to handle it since she hadn't read the information about it". I recall that I went into the store on Premiere Saturday to look for the R-T-W box to be told she wasn't going to participate in the drawing after all. I don't know who got the ornaments that she bought as a part of the prize package; however, the choice to waste my time is still a memory that I carry with. I do minimal business in this store (due to her attitude mainly) and that was most certainly not good for her future business. I don't ever stop in this store unless I need to look for something I couldn't find elsewhere. Customer's money and where they choose to spend their dollars carries a lot of weight and if a store chooses to not follow the rules; then as a customer I would not shop in that store. I would spend my dollars elsewhere.

Everyone is definitely entitled to their opinion, even if it's different from everyone else's. Thus, my comments. Shop where you like. With the dwindling number of Hallmark stores, your choices may be narrowed in the coming years. A store might even sell an RTW ornament to help meet expenses and keep the doors open.

But be sure to bombard Hallmark with calls and e-mails to possibly facilitate the closing of that store, even if it's a thousand or more miles away from you. I'm sure the local collectors will appreciate your concern.....NEXT!

I am well aware that the number of Hallmark stores has dwindled in recent years. We have lost 1/2 our Hallmark stores in the Duluth area. I use to enjoy going to all the Hallmark stores on Premiere Saturday to sign up for the R-T-W drawings and I miss that. I most certainly choose where to shop and the local store that I shop at appreciates my business and my leadership as our local club President. They treat their customers well and they treat us right. My first choice would not be to shop at a store that didn't follow rules/policies set forth by national.

As I said in my post; if it was sold after Premiere, it would most likely not be a major deal for those who have a strong opinion on this subject. It ultimately comes down to whether a store wants to treat their customers the way they should be; or, if they choose the need for greed and that is what it is whether it's for survival or not. I don't think selling a R-T-W ornament on Ebay for maybe $50 is going to make or break any individual store from closing.



I never once advocated that anybody on here should be contacting Hallmark about whoever this is. I might take a different position if it was a local store that did this (I have reported local stores for not following rules/policies to the local sales rep. since they were local issues) I most certainly don't begrudge those who take this position either as I believe rules and policies are meant to be followed and not just pick and choose which ones to follow or not.

With Premiere weekend coming up quickly I certainly hope we have other topics that we can talk about and I certainly look forward to it.

The "bombard" statement wasn't personal. I'm trying to cover as many bases as I can, as I know there will be a torrent. This, nor any of my subsequent responses will be personal. What's personal is when people assume that someone is up to no good, and using skullduggery when they have no idea of the truth. Not holding everyone to the same standard....well, I guess that could be personal, too. I used no names, unlike calling eBay sellers out by linking their auctions.

At last year's events, someone had personally identified someone, right down to using the person's name. Now that's personal. What's even more insane is that many here were ok with that. See what I mean about covering as many bases as possible?

Gotta go for a few hours now, but I'll be back later. When I tire of this, I'll leave it be, move on, and not read any more in the thread. I realize that of those willing to post, mine will be a minority opinion, but that's OK.

There are a lot of people that feel the way I do, but none of them will put themselves in the crosshairs. I work VERY hard to acquire what I do, and having it demeaned requires a response.

Kudos to those who are willing to put themselves in the crosshairs and respectively share their opinions. That's what this public forum is for.

I don't see anything wrong with preselling product but I'll stick to my statement regarding preselling of an ornament that will only be available randomly, in some of the grab bags. Unless they have inside connections there is no way they'll know if they'll have that available.

If anybody no longer wants to support a local store who sells their RTW ornaments on ebay (I know I wouldn't), there are plenty of stores who would gladly ship to you. Once the stores realize their losing business because of that practice, they may change "their" policy.

I contacted Hallmark via their Facebook site and Email using the "info" address. I did receive a reply from the "info" address and the person who answered did not understand what I meant. BUT, the Facebook site read my post again and here is the reply I got this morning.



Hi Mary. We apologize, there is no guarantee that members will receive one of the special repaints until the event so we are not sure how this eBay seller is able to pre-sale ornaments they don't even know if they will receive. We thank you for bringing this to our attention and we have passed it along to our KOC department. --PW